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Understanding Cemetery Burial Fees

• The Catholic Cemeteries Association

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 In this episode of CCAirwaves, we discuss burial fees and the true value behind them. Together, we review what these fees cover, why they exist, and how they help preserve the sacred grounds where our loved ones are laid to rest. Whether you're pre-planning or simply curious about how cemetery operations work, this conversation brings clarity, compassion, and transparency to a topic that affects every family. 

 If you have questions about burial fees or would like to speak directly with Andrej Lah, Director of Cemeteries, you can reach him at alah@clecem.org or by calling (216) 883-5389. 


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SPEAKER_01:

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to CC Airwaves. My name is Paige Matillico, and I'm joined today by Andre La, Director of Cemeteries. We're so glad you're tuning in because today we're discussing a topic that many families have questions about cemetery burial fees. Whether you're pre-planning for the future or navigating arrangements after a loss, understanding burial costs is an important part of the process. We hope today's conversation helps bring clarity, transparency, and peace of mind as we walk through what these fees include and why they matter. So, Andre, welcome back to the podcast. It's been a few months.

SPEAKER_00:

Hi, Paige, how are you? I'm doing well. It's always good to be here.

SPEAKER_01:

So, what do you have to tell us today about burial fees?

SPEAKER_00:

Aaron Powell Well, you know, I know that it is a complicated topic because people wonder why does it cost this much? And you know, I I'll get uh especially contractors, um, you know, construction guys, the, you know, they talk about, oh, you know, I could dig that and in 20 minutes and so forth and so on. And I don't think people truly understand everything that goes into an opening of a cemetery grave. And and it with and if you're a developer or a real estate developer, you know, you you have to put in roads, you have to put in, you know, um water runoff, you, you know, storm sewers and so forth and so on. Well, you know, we have to do the same thing. So, I mean, when you're when you're building out a section, it's not just, you know, uh you do a little grading and and you have a burial space. No, you have to, you know, sometimes you have to clear it, then you have to uh you know have to grade it, then you have to put in uh drainage, you have to put in storm drains. Um we don't put in water lines anymore because you know those are just they're impossible to maintain over the years, but um, you know, you you you do have infrastructure that you're installing, and then you know you have to put in a road, you have to, and then you have to maintain that road, and asphalt isn't cheap. Um and I think when you know when you really start at the at the beginning, um, you know, when you talk about fees, and I don't think people truly understand everything that goes into it. Um first and foremost, uh everybody likes to have a nice road that they uh that they can approach their burial spot with um or on. They um they want it to be plowed, they want it to not have huge chuckholes, um, and and so they want and they want the grass cut, they want it maintained, they want to take care of it. I I know that sometimes people get upset a little bit about the uh you know that we you know a lot of headstones are sinking and this and that. And you know, unfortunately, um years ago, a lot of these flush flush uh stones were just placed on uh on the ground rather than put foundations under, we actually um do place a concrete slab with uh on top of gravel, and then the the the you know the um the stone goes on top of that, or if we have to pour a foundation. But the thing that you know is the most important thing that people need to understand is when we we charge these fees one time, and and that's it. So you're you don't have to worry that you're gonna get a bill down the road for a maintenance issue or or a uh or to reduce something, or if you call and you need a service thing, uh, you know, you put in a service report. Um, you know, those things are taken care of. We're very, very good about that. And then another thing about the fees that I think people forget is that you know, we have a we have professionalized our cemetery staff. And and what I mean by that is, you know, we we do training, we spent an enormous amount of uh of effort training our staff on uh all types of different uh uh uh you know things from not only just equipment operation and making sure that they're certified on on those things, but also on trauma. Um we bring in we bring in um uh people who are involved in trauma EMTs and and most recently an emergency room um professional doctor to train um our staff on how to handle um you know a trauma situation or or when we bring in our CPR training and so forth, you know, we have AEDs all over the place, but yet we uh we you know we have to have people that are trained on how to use them. So we've really done an amazing job of addressing those needs. So they you know when you come to the cemetery, you you will be meeting and you see some one of our guys in yellow or one of our office staff, they're trained to make sure that they can take care of you in the event of an emergency. And you know, those things they all cost money. So I think the most important thing as we go through our fees is for people to understand that, you know, we are a ministry of the Catholic Church. And as a ministry of the Catholic Church, we operate as a not-for-profit. But it doesn't mean that we we don't earn money from these services that we provide. And also we are in that regard self-sustaining. We we do not rely on donations. The the Diocese of Cleveland um uh relies on us to be a self-sustaining entity, and they rely on us to manage um well and to and to be good stewards of the resources that we have. The bishop has entrusted us to take care of um his flock, and and as a result, you know, we we really struggle to make sure that the monies that we collect are invested properly so that the future will be taken care of, that you know our current our our current obligations are met, that we take care of uh all of the benefits that we provide our staff, the pension that we provide our staff, the the good wages that we insure for our staff. And so when you when you see an opening charge of like right now, it's uh$1,650, and people think, oh, you know, my gosh, I uh I could dig that hole myself, you know, for that for that kind of money. But it's not just that, it's everything that goes into it. It's the time that we spend making sure that everything is correct. But also you have to look at, you know, the amount of money that was spent to get, you know, to establish those graves. And I I know we charge for a grave price, of course, and we charge the 15 percent. And just so everybody knows, that 15 percent perpetual care fee goes into a fund that is that is locked up tight. Um, and and to make sure that that none of those funds can be used for anything other than to take care of your cemeteries um into the future. Because at some point, you know, you look at a cemetery like All Souls, which is a very active cemetery, someday, 100 years from now, it will not be as active as it is today. And and you want to make sure that there are funds set aside that are managed responsibly, and they are actually um we are part of a diocesan um parish fund that is managed very effectively. Um real pleased with the way the diocese is has has handled that. Um it's it's managed responsibly, and I think everybody should be very comforta uh uh comforted in knowing that um the uh the funds are so well managed uh that it's been a nice growth. And we have really, uh in the 25 years since I've been here, I mean we we started a you know, not a good place, uh, but we have successfully built up a fund to where people can know that, you know, hey, my prepaids, I don't have to worry about those because the diocese is taking care of that. And I can assure you that while we are exempt from statutory requirements, we meet statutory requirements because it's just it's good stewardship. It makes good sense. So I think first and foremost, I want our listeners to understand that when you spend money with Catholic cemeteries, your money is used wisely and it is invested into the properties. It is the money is spent on the things that make a difference. And I know sometimes people get upset about different things that we don't do, um, or that we maybe, you know, turn on, you know, we closed the bathrooms at all souls, and there is there were other reasons for that. One of them is the ongoing vandalism that we were experiencing, and we we tried to address it, um, but you know, sometimes people do what they do. Um so we but but then what we did instead is we opened uh we we put in these doors between the bathrooms and the office so that after um hours on on Saturdays, for example, because I, you know, funeral directors had called me and said, hey, what about you know from noon to 4:30, your staff is still here, but people have nowhere to go to the bathroom. So we left those doors open so that people who come to a funeral they have access to facilities at least during those times. So my we really do spend an enormous amount of time thinking about how do we serve our our our public, how do we minister to our families uh in a way that is responsible, and always trying to figure out, you know, hey, if we can't do this, maybe we can do it this way. So um and it it it really is it takes an enormous amount of time to go through that process. So I don't I don't want anybody to think as we as we start talking about these things that we just kind of come up with a number and it and we just throw it out there. No, we we do, we we kind of look around to see what's going on elsewhere, and we also um I do consider very, very carefully how much um you know it impacts a family at the time of a funeral to have to be able to, you know, come up with some funds. That's why, you know, it used to be that we would do a 30-day contract, um, but our collections issues were becoming a uh a problem. So uh we at least tried to cover our our initial costs and some of our um our you know some of our services with a 20% uh um mandatory down before we we proceed with an opening. Um and it just it it just because of the reality of of what's going on in the world. And you know, we we have the same problems that everybody else has, any other business. We have a fuel bill, we have uh, you know, a heat bill, we have an electric bill, we have uh, you know, we have equipment that needs to be maintained. When you buy a backhoe, you're not, you know, you know, it's not a it's it's not a cheap piece of equipment. I mean, you're looking at$100,000 for a backhoe. And well, why do we need a backhoe? Well, because it, you know, how do you gonna how do you dig you know 10 graves in a day at all souls cemetery in this type of weather? Well, you need the kind of equipment that's gonna get in there. And then when it gets mushy, um people they won't they don't want to see huge ruts in their in their cemetery um you know when they come there. I mean, it you know, it's bad enough that they have to see those indentations from those big pieces of plywood. Um but at least those are flat and they can be very easily, you know, the when spring hits, they grow over and and all of that kind of disappears. Um but the most important thing is that we you know we really try very hard to get in there. So there are there have been times when I think the most sheets we ever used was three, just just around 300 sheets of plywood. And at at you know, plywood goes anywhere from 50 to 80 bucks a sheet, and and you know, you're using 100 sheets of plywood to get in, or you know, 300 in that one case. And if you ever look at at how it's set up, it's so that the backhoe can get in there, the truck can get in there. So you're using a lot of plywood, and and you know, you're you're asking these guys to load that stuff, drop it down, and then it gets full of ice and it's wet and it's frozen. Um and and you know, and and I can't I can't look at a guy and say, I'm gonna pay you minimum wage to do that. No, I I need to make sure that you know they can have a life and that they they can rely on on us, they can rely on me to make sure that I'm always look out looking out for them and for their interests and and making sure that they have good equipment. So, you know, when you're when you're when you're spending this money on fees, you you're making sure that that field guy has a good pair of boots because we pay for those boots and they're Red Wing boots made in uh made in Wisconsin. So um we uh you know we make sure that they have good clothes, they have good uniforms, they have warm, you know, rain gear. And and and quite honestly, the rain gear we buy them is is is it's out of uh out of here in Bainbridge. It's through um I think it's Arborware, and uh and and they do an amazing job. And but it's not cheap, you know. The the the the full outfits like almost 300 bucks. So um but you want your field staff to be out there comfortable in in in this type of weather, you know, you're relying on them to have your grave ready. And they're relying on me to make sure that I provide them with the tools and with the resources they need to be able to do that job without getting hurt and and where they are warm and comfortable as best as they can be during this time of you know, this time of year. And in the spring when it's raining and pouring, that's when you really need th that plywood out there. So, you know, uh the when you're listening to this talk about fees, you have to see all the things that go into it, the office staff and the amount of time they spend, um, making sure that everything is done correctly. And you and you want to pay them a fair uh a fair salary. You want to make sure that everyone is is receiving uh proper compensation for the work that they do. And so when you're looking at those fees, you have to understand that you know where what we're trying to do is is is pay for our current operations, address the the infrastructure needs that that continue, you know, with with all the buildings we have to make sure that we're able to take care of our buildings. And you know, we've had some real the weather really exposed some roof problems, so we've got to deal with that now. And roofs are expensive. So, you know, and then in the springtime to make sure that we we address any kind of you know dilapidated road conditions, and then we have to start the trimming. And and I know people say, Oh, you never trim. You know, what we do is is obviously the monuments get a priority because that really looks bad. And then the flush, we try to get through the flush stones twice a year. We've had a we've had a few years where we're able to get maybe a little bit more than than twice, but we really do try to get through twice. I mean, people will tell me that they never do, but I mean, if you do not trim the edge of your sidewalk uh of the of your driveway every week, give it two, three weeks and it looks unkept. So e you know, when you're looking at 350,000 headstones, it takes a lot to get through them. And so also when you're looking at resetting headstones, you know, you got thousands and thousands and thousands of them that are that are that need to be reset. And we try to get to them. If there was, if there's one thing that I will always be frustrated with that I probably will not achieve before my last day here, is that I was not able to uh tackle the resetting of as many headstones as possible. So we just try to tackle um as many problems as we can. I always reflect on Father Wright, uh, who was the director right before me. Um, when I first came to the cemeteries and I saw that really needed a lot of work. Um I came into his office and we had a very, very heart-to-heart converse, strong heart-to-heart conversation. And I looked at him and said, What did you get me into? And he just smiled and he asked me how I eat an elephant. And I didn't didn't really understand where he was going with it because I had never heard that one before. But then he just smiled and he said one bite at a time. And I think over the years we have succeeded in addressing a lot of the things that needed to be addressed at cemeteries. And I got to tell you something. I just got a call from a lady this morning um thanking me uh for the staff at All Souls because of what they did and how they took care of her. And it's not unusual for me to get I yes, I get complaint calls. You're you're you're always gonna get those. But the fact that people do call and and reach out and just let me know how much they appreciate our staff because they did this or they did that or they bent over this or that, um it it's all part of the fact that we have professionalized our staff, that we have we we we make sure that they're not worried about um how they're going to pay for their kids' braces, or or maybe they're trying to figure out how they're gonna take their little summer vacation um and and making sure that they can do that. So, you know, you want to make sure that this staff who's out there working and and and the people in the offices dealing with tragedies every day. I mean, our staff, when when someone comes in and they've lost a child, they've lost, you know, or they've lost a spouse of of 50, 60 years. I mean, it's it's hard. And and the emotions that that play into that are so powerful sometimes. And you know, so you want to make sure that, you know, how they're going to pay a bill or if they're gonna be able to buy groceries is not an issue because they are dealing with such heavy emotions. So I I know this is kind of a little a roundabout way to get to fees, but I guess I want our listeners to understand that we don't just kind of come up with a number. I mean it really has to but we really do think it through and and we want to make sure that that everyone is they they understand that the reason these bill the these fees are charged is so that we can provide them with the best service possible and that we um that we invest so much of it back into the properties. Um you know this is a it is it is what I call a not-for-profit, and and it is that the reason it is that is because the there no one individually benefits from the money that we earn. Obviously we pay salaries, um, but most importantly, the the money is invested back in the property. So when you pay us that money, when you pay the Catholic cemeteries, you are actually so when you buy your headstone from the Catholic cemeteries, when you buy your your your grave box or vault from the Catholic cemeteries, when you pay for the services of the Catholic cemeteries, those monies are invested into your property because these are your cemeteries. They're not mine, they don't belong to me. I'm just given the I was just given the privilege of being a steward for these these, I can't even believe, 25 years, but um it's been a little bit longer. But it's it's just one of those things. So it really is important for everyone to understand that it's it's this is all put back in the property. When we do a new section, when we put something in in, and when we when you when we're paving the roads, and when you're paving 35 miles of roads, it's expensive. And when you're buying, you know, you know, a new dump truck is not cheap. And so we're always looking at at better ways, more effective ways, more inexpensive ways so that we can manage our property. So, you know, when you're looking at an opening charge of of$1,650, and you think, oh my gosh, but you have to look at everything that goes into that, not only the staff that does the initial intake, then and then you look at you know what the field staff has to do to go out and prep that grave and the and the checks that go through. I mean, it is, you know, thank God it is it is almost never happened. Happens that we we you know we have an error. And unfortunately, sometimes when we do have an error, it was an error that was created 40, 50 years ago. Um and I'll be quite frank, back then, um we did not take good care of our staff. And and things, you know, and probably one of the reasons that we we do have some of those underlying problems from way back when is because um the cemeteries were were really not seen as a a place where I could have a career. Um I wanted to change all that because our families need, they rely on us to be that, to provide that, so that they know that that, you know, hey, these guys are professionals. They are, I can, I can count on them to get the job done for me. Um and it's not and and and I stress that with them every time I meet with them, how important it is and why we do the things that we do and why we we make sure that they have good benefits and and and a good a living wage, if you will. You know, so again, you you know, that 1650, you've got to look at everything that goes into it. And then in the natural area, and sometimes, you know, you know why why is that$2,500 to bury someone in the natural area? Well, it's sometimes dug by hand. And you have to, you know, and or if you can, you can get that little mini track hoe back there, but again, that's, you know, you still need a lot of hand digging. Um, you know, so I mean you look at through all of that, or the raise and lower is the big one. You know, why is it$4,000 to raise and lower? Because you're you're you're opening a grave that wasn't supposed to be and and removing a can a a vault that was not intended to be removed. And if you've ever watched a raise and lower and see what goes into it and the amount of effort and time and and trying to, you know, and sometimes, especially in in some some of our areas where the clay is really strong, I mean, I, you know, you got to get those straps under there, and it stresses. We've had one where we had to have two back hose on either side of the vault to get it out because it was so stuck in the clay. Um and so, well, so when you're looking at that raise and lower, you have you have to charge enough to make sure that you're you're covering your costs. And I think, you know, and I think everybody really should maybe look at you know what they do or what their businesses and what their businesses charge and why they charge what they charge and recognize that we're no different than anybody else uh in that regard. So even like a cremation, well, why is it$1,200 to do a cremation? It's just a but it's the same thing. You're digging, you're you have to get in there, you have to get in with some equipment, you have to dig that hole. If you have to dig it by hand, you have to still dig it deep enough. And in this type of weather, you're out there with a with a pickaxe if you have to be. Um so again, it's it's just one of those, it's just an ongoing battle between trying to make sure that you're always, you know, meeting the needs of your families by by not, you know, by by addressing their financial situation. And I get it. I mean, we're all we all struggle to pay our bills. And death is one of those occurrences that, you know, obviously it's sometimes there it's expected. Rarely, rarely is it expected, but sometimes, you know, you know, dad's pretty sick or mom's pretty sick, or you know, um, unfortunately, it it, you know, we all know that that sometimes that just happens, but it's those unexpected ones. And all of a sudden, you know, you've got a funeral bill, which is very expensive, and then you got the cemetery bill. And I think people need to separate the funeral bill from the cemetery bill, because you know, we're a comp we're a separate part of the of that process. And and what what also you have to remember is that when you do come to the cemetery, you know, you're you're gonna visit here for generations. I mean, I see graves here that are 100 years old and they still get flowers and decorations. So what is that? Somebody, maybe somebody remembers, you know, somebody or they they were told about uncle, whatever, or grandpa, or or so forth, and and so they still come and visit and they still and they want this place to look good. And so I hear people compliment Calvary Cemetery, how beautiful it is. Well, it's beautiful because we take care of it. I hear people talk about Holy Cross now with that whole front entrance. I mean, if you drive into Holy Cross in the springtime and and when the when everything's starting to bloom and everything, Holy Cross's entrance is gorgeous. Holy Cross Akron, it's be it it looks like a park. But what we did is all the money that you guys spend on our you know, on the services here, we take that money and we plow it right back into the property so that when you pull into one of your cemeteries that that is operated by Catholic cemeteries, you can expect that it is going to be beautiful, that it's going to be are there always issues? Of course. You're not always, you're, you're, you can't always, you know, tackle every little thing. And and so if somebody calls me and says, hey, this is a problem, I'll, you know, we'll we'll we'll try to address it as quickly as we can. But you know, but if you look at the overall and you pull in and and my God, the trees are beautiful and the entrance is beautiful, and and you know what it should give you a sense of pride because this is your cemetery. This is a piece of your faith. This is a piece of the church that you belong to. And and ultimately it is, it belongs to all of us. You know, I have family in four cemeteries. I have family at all souls, I have family here at Calvary, I have family at uh at Holy Cross, and I have family at all saints. So, and I'm for all I know, I probably have family at a couple other places too. But it's it's important, you know, these are all part of our Catholic faith. And that's why I it's so important to me for people to realize that when you look at our service charges, how we spend the money, how we manage the money, and how we manage it for you, for your family, for you the future. Another important thing about our service charges that I think people don't realize is the way we publish them. If you go to any other cemetery operation, um none of this stuff is published. A couple of little things here or there, because we look. I I always want to uh you know, I always try to see if I can figure out where we are in the in the grand scheme of things. And usually we kind of fall right in the in the middle. I actually a funeral director uh the other day uh when I talked to him about the fees and stuff, he goes, Yeah, you guys are kind of in line with you know the middle of the road, maybe a little bit, you know, you're not as expensive as others, but but we we clearly cannot meet the um uh what what a lot of the municipalities will charge. But you know, so we try to come up with a fair number that uh that really kind of meets the needs of our families. You know, so then you you go through it and you try to figure out, well, why why is this or why is that? Why is a disinterment as much as that is? Well, again, it's if you've ever seen a disinterment, you'll you can understand why it costs so much. Um and then you think about the um some of the additional burial services that we do that we charge. Uh pall bearers are the uh I think are the big one that people get a little uh unnerved about. Uh but again, what happens is is first of all, there are there are there is the Arimathea Society, and we do encourage people to use it. But you know, if I have like at All Saints, for example, there's a staff of of eight or ten uh folks on any given day, sometimes you know, six, and you you know, you take four guys off of a off of a service that they're working on somewhere else to do a burial, to do pallbearers, and that's that's 45 minutes to an hour that they have to be pulled off of a job that they're working on to take care of a pall bear services, and that reduces my staff by 50 to 60 percent on that particular you know for that particular time, which prevents me from getting ready for the next day. And and it and so that it it impacts other families. So part of the reason is you know, um part of it is to discourage people from using it, I'll be quite honest. I mean, that's part of my thinking on that one, because there are other services that will provide it. But I i if you if you need our pallbears, then you know what, I I I gotta charge you for it. And just like a tent, I mean, you know, tents are they're very expensive to buy, they're they're time consuming to put up, and and it usually requires a three or four-man crew to put them up. Um you know, and and we do have men and women in the field, so you know it it it requires um staff uh to put them up. So, you know, you have to be cognizant of the time spent putting it up, taking it down, making sure that it's stable and secure, making sure that you know all of the uh the the you know the stakes are are in there. Because if it's a windy day, you know, we we really have to make sure that it's stable so no one gets hurt. Um and that's another thing. I mean, we really you know we really spend a lot of time making sure that our pl our cemeteries are safe. And so as you as you as you go down the fees, and and and they're published, I mean you can find them on our website. I mean, there's no there's no hidden anything here. I mean, it's that's one of the things that was very important to me, and and I know I know that the bishop is very um uh is very happy that we do this, is that you know, we we publish everything. There's no hidden, there's no hidden, you know, secret fee, there's no there's nothing like that. I mean, we are very transparent about what we're doing and and why. And and that's the purpose of this podcast, is just so families as they listen to this, they realize, you know what, it makes sense to me. And and and and if anybody should have, I'm telling you right now, to all you listeners, if you have questions about a fee or if you have a question about why, um my information is right on our website. You can call me on my cell phone.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, and I'll put it in the description below.

SPEAKER_00:

Paige will do that. Because I do. I I I want people to know that they have someone that they can call and ask why. Um because as a Catholic cemetery operation, it is very important uh to to me, to our staff here, and it's very important to our bishop and his staff that that that our cemetery operation is very transparent so that our the faithful understand that we are here to serve, and that and and part of this process is yes, we you know, we can't do it for free. You know, unfortunately, ministry does cost money sometimes. And as part of that, you know, as a self-sustaining operation, we rely on these fees to pay our bills. So you look at the foundation setting charges, and sometimes people wonder about those. And it says, well, it you know, when you pay that one-time fee and a percentage of that that goes into perpetual care, if you call, if if you put that stone in the ground 50 years ago and it's something's going on with it and you want it reset, it is reset and it and you don't get a bill. Uh and I think that's the thing that people also need to understand is that you can call and you can ask. We try to tackle as much as we can. We can't always get to everything. And as I said, with when you're looking at a you know, 350 plus thousand headstones out there, you're you you can't get to all of them. But you certainly try to take care of, you know, especially the the the real bad ones. Here at Calvary, there's you know, there's a whole bunch of them, and and you know, we do the best we can to uh to get at them. So, you know, your foundation and setting charges, they're they're really um they're really very reasonable when I compare them to other cemetery operations, um, but also it is it is to make sure that we have enough funds set aside so that you know they can be taken care of into the future. Uh the memorial option is another exam uh example of what we do. We don't a lot of uh cemeteries will set up monument sections, and they're monument sections. I mean, if you go to any one of the other uh cemeteries around that are not one of ours, and oh yes, you can put somebody in the monument area, oh you can only put somebody in the monument section if you want a monument. And so there you are, you're you're you're in an at-need situation, mom just died, dad just died, and you're struggling with so much, and you have so much on your plate, um, and you and it's confusing. You've got all this information coming at you so fast. That's one of the reasons I I do do suggest um, you know, doing some pre-need or pre-planning because it does it does take a lot of that uh away. But when you when you are caught in that situation and then that need um and you're wondering, what do I do? How do I do this? Do I want a monument? Don't I want a monument? What if I just want a flush stone? Um a lot of cemeteries will give you that, you know, hey, if you want a monument section, it's going to be X, and it's quite a bit more than the flush. What we do is a bit different. And the reason we do it is so that families aren't pressured at that time when they're when they're dealing with uh the burial of someone they love. They should not be pressured with, hey, what if I do want a monument? Do I do do I spend the extra money and buy that monument lot? And quite frankly, some of those monument lots are, you know, I mean, if you look at our our flush uh to a large monument fees, they are nowhere near what a monument lot is in some of these cemeteries. And I mean you can go price them around. Um I just had uh I just got a call from one of our FSRs and they were very appreciative of all the information that we provided. Uh they went to one of our um uh another cemetery, and and they're they were very surprised at how open we were, how transparent we were, and they were surprised at how reasonable we were. So I know that we are really you know, we we do meet the needs of our families and how effective we effectively we do um we are out there doing the best we can, um and how effective we are in and really making sure that we we do meet the needs of our families. And so you look at a flush to a large monument, and and why? Well, because you're changing the grave. But it's again, if you leave it as a flush, then it's then you don't have to pay anything extra. But if you want a monument, that monument is going to create a maintenance nightmare for us for generations to come. And I don't I'm not trying to dissuade you from that, but I want you to understand that the reason we charge that is because of your changing the grave from what it was originally designed to be to something different. And and it's really an an opportunity for you not to be forced to do it, whereas in most situations you would be forced to make a dis a very difficult decision in a very difficult time. And so really when you look at our feet, the message that I want you to to to take from this podcast is that we spend a lot of time because I'm you know I'm also very aware of what it costs to to have a family, to raise a family, to, you know, to meet to try to take a vacation. You know, I mean nothing's cheap anymore, um, but we really do try to maintain a level of reasonableness and we do stress, and and especially I'll be quite frank, me. I spend a lot of time studying our fees to make sure that we are, you know, we can meet the needs of our Catholic families because as always, we are a Catholic cemetery serving our Catholic community as as best we can with the with the funds that you provide us graciously to be able to do the things that we do to make your cemeteries some of the best around. I've had people tell me that we probably are in the top ten of cemetery operations in the country, and it's because of your support and your help that we are able to achieve the ministry that we provide. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you for joining us on this episode of CC Airwaves. We hope today's conversation helped clarify some of the most common questions around cemetery burial fees and gave you a better understanding of what goes into the cost of burial services. Until next time, take care and God bless.